Author Topic: Whats so great about linux?  (Read 5632 times)

Offline Zazen

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Whats so great about linux?
« on: August 29, 2008, 02:34:10 AM »
For a while I've wanted to actually use linux and get to know it better, but there's really no chance of me using it for anything unless there's no way to do it in windows. So last night on a whim I downloaded backtrack and ran it on an old laptop and got my neighbors WEP key. That was kinda neat but not very satisfying since I just had to use the few tools and hardly had to interact with linux at all.

So I'm wondering, what else can you do in linux that's not practical to do in windows? And what's a good distro of linux thats, well, not too easy to use?

Offline Moose-Alini

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2008, 05:30:50 PM »
install slackware problem solved

Offline trevelyn

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2008, 05:24:26 AM »
Linux, my friend, is a copy of a copy.  You know how when you make a copy of something and it turns out ; almost as good as the original sometimes - but never as good as it?  Well, if you were to make a copy of that copy, you would have a copy of a copy; exempli gratia: Linux being a derivative of a free and open derivative of UNIX.  UNIX as a core can be so impressive to a computer enthusiast, that it becomes an addiction.  An addiction, in our example, being one that cannot be described to the fullest beauty of that in the addicts eye, no.  One can obtain a more freely advertised and distributed distribution such as Linux and either drop it with distaste, .. , or crave for more; to spend more time or follow where it goes... back to it's source - UNIX.  You have to admit though, FOSS, GNU and other free software distributer "companies" make Linux what it is.  Linux had options that Vista calls "new" years before hand.  Hell, Linux had "stacks" way before OSX called that a "new" feature.  FOSS and GNU software is quite nice, but running on a kernel that is a copy of a copy, so, in some ways you can be close to just using Windows - quite buggy - you're right, but not.  What's the cost on Adobe Photoshop these days? $200? what's the cost of Sony Soundforge, or Microsoft Office? Even though the free alternatives can also be used with windows, there are not the default.  And the cost isn't what we mean in our discourse of "free," no, that's just a bonus.  We mean the source code, the images, the sounds, everything, is freely open to you as a user/or/developer.  You can change it.  You can make it better.  You can mold it to your every whim.  which is why FOSS and GNU and such (Linux included (GNU)) Are far beyond what it's competitor may call "new."  Hey, I like Windows too, but I would want anything besides UNIX on my machines at home.  As i said, it's just an addiction. 
Coders can port things to Windows that they write for Linux, when the language is portable.  BUT, Windows, emulates Linux, to do so sometimes.  OR it will need much more supporting applications/services just to run.  Keeping the alternative OS (Linux) cleaner with less "load" on the CPU or other system resources.  (here's your "practical" part)  Also - networking programs on Linux/UNIX seem to be so precise and so accurate, with a razor-like detail that it seems TCP/IP was invented to suit the beauty of UNIX.  You think that's a bit on the egotistical side?  Think about it - TCP/IP "Detail" can include security in it's tree of discourse.  How many remote exploits are there for UNIX - relative - to that of it's alternative (Windows)?  hrmm.. what else is more practical about Linux/UNIX?  How about total control over your application to shell area?  What I hate most about Windows are "zombie" applications.  Sure, you could alt+ctrl+del and "end process tree" after a quick right click on the cryptically named application.  But that doesn't always kill it, does it? heh, no.  If I have complete control over my kernel with something as simple as that (kill -9 PID) IMAGINE what i could do elsewhere....  8) Windows isn't bad at all, if you can keep your pr0n intake down (Viruses, malware, spyware, trojans), and your enemies at bay (those whom you flame on forums that have nasty skiddy apps), and your file system under a hawk-like watch.. yeah then your good.  But that's like changing your whole lifestyle around for someone like me. 

cheers.   

EDIT: whoops one more thing: /etc
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 05:28:24 AM by trevelyn »

Offline Zazen

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2008, 10:34:30 PM »
I guess it really boils down to tight networking stuff, then. Thanks for the recommendation, I can think of plenty of weird networking things I'd like to try.

Is there a not-too-easy distro you'd recommend? For instance, if someone were looking for a Windows equivalent I'd say to install Windows 2000 Server because it has the modern windows architecture and the bulk of the interesting features without doing everything for you. It's old enough that getting it up to speed requires some fixes and workarounds which turn out to be instructive. (I got ubuntu a while ago and it just kinda installed itself and worked too easily. I don't want that)

What I hate most about Windows are "zombie" applications.  Sure, you could alt+ctrl+del and "end process tree" after a quick right click on the cryptically named application.  But that doesn't always kill it, does it? heh, no.  If I have complete control over my kernel with something as simple as that (kill -9 PID) IMAGINE what i could do elsewhere....  8) Windows isn't bad at all, if you can keep your pr0n intake down (Viruses, malware, spyware, trojans), and your enemies at bay (those whom you flame on forums that have nasty skiddy apps), and your file system under a hawk-like watch.. yeah then your good.  But that's like changing your whole lifestyle around for someone like me.

Due respect, that's just a matter of familiarity. If you knew windows super well then you'd notice when something was out of place without keeping hawk-like watch and you'd have appropriate tools handy to kill a stubborn process. I sometimes get dragged into fixing problems on unix and linux machines and I'm in the same boat when I sit at one, confused by cryptic process names, man-ing everything, getting frustrated when things don't work as described. That's nobodys fault and it doesn't mean that nix sucks, I just don't know it that well.

Offline rbcp

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 10:34:55 PM »
install slackware problem solved

Keep using Windows.  Problem solved.

Offline trevelyn

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 04:42:55 PM »
I guess it really boils down to tight networking stuff, then. Thanks for the recommendation, I can think of plenty of weird networking things I'd like to try.

Is there a not-too-easy distro you'd recommend? For instance, if someone were looking for a Windows equivalent I'd say to install Windows 2000 Server because it has the modern windows architecture and the bulk of the interesting features without doing everything for you. It's old enough that getting it up to speed requires some fixes and workarounds which turn out to be instructive. (I got ubuntu a while ago and it just kinda installed itself and worked too easily. I don't want that)

What I hate most about Windows are "zombie" applications.  Sure, you could alt+ctrl+del and "end process tree" after a quick right click on the cryptically named application.  But that doesn't always kill it, does it? heh, no.  If I have complete control over my kernel with something as simple as that (kill -9 PID) IMAGINE what i could do elsewhere....  8) Windows isn't bad at all, if you can keep your pr0n intake down (Viruses, malware, spyware, trojans), and your enemies at bay (those whom you flame on forums that have nasty skiddy apps), and your file system under a hawk-like watch.. yeah then your good.  But that's like changing your whole lifestyle around for someone like me.

Due respect, that's just a matter of familiarity. If you knew windows super well then you'd notice when something was out of place without keeping hawk-like watch and you'd have appropriate tools handy to kill a stubborn process. I sometimes get dragged into fixing problems on unix and linux machines and I'm in the same boat when I sit at one, confused by cryptic process names, man-ing everything, getting frustrated when things don't work as described. That's nobodys fault and it doesn't mean that nix sucks, I just don't know it that well.

oh yeah definitely, but you can use ps aux in GNU to see very detailed PID info ;) And "man" isnt the greatest resource for beginners My own mediocre attempt at humor has been highly amusing to myself..  I use man now only as a more verbose version of -h or --help when i forget the syntax of one or two command arguments.  If you wanna learn and are new, I'd suggest using Google over the man pages ;)  And if you want one that's not so easy, they are right about slackware.  It's not as easy as ubuntu.  there's more configring involved on OS's that aren't "easy" but that's what makes them more reliable, stable, faster at boot, etc.  I'd start off by building your own kernel with support for only what you need.  There's tons of tutorials on how to do so using "make menu config" is how i do it, but you'll be surprised at the speed and stability once a lot of bloated services or drivers aren't loading.

here's what i mean about "ps aux"

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ   RSS  TT  STAT STARTED      TIME COMMAND
root     25061  0.6  4.0 317592 82888  ??  R    Sun06PM 147:56.08 /usr/local/bin/X -br -nolisten tcp :0 -auth /var/run/xauth/A:0-2f4xFJ (Xorg)

obviously this is my "X" window system (on FreeBSD), this shows the full path of the command running, what it is "(Xorg)" when it started and the three other things that Windows says "user, mem usage, and cpu usage." This also gives you the PID, with the PID and as a real system administrator, you can do what you want to that process.  you wont see "send error report" messages, you wont see a "paintable" window, no.  It's the control over the OS is what I like about *nix.  So yeah, If you wanna get dirty in it and have things not so easy try Slackware, configure your own kernel, install by hand your applications and their dependencies, etc etc, or hell, you could even try FreeBSD.  It's all Free! Freeee! :D

install slackware problem solved

Keep using Windows.  Problem solved.

Windows XP ROCKS SO HARD when i am playing Diablo, WoW, PSX Emulators, using Adobe Premier, using Camtasia Studio <3, or for all of my Nintendo DS Homebrew applications, yes i admit, i love windows then, at those times. :)

but im a nerd, things need to be complicated or i get a headache. :P


Offline trevelyn

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 04:44:18 PM »
oh yeah, i've said a million times, you guys can pm me if you need help!! - hope that all helps you get on the track you want to be on. :)

Offline Moose-Alini

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2008, 04:54:01 PM »
oh yeah, i've said a million times, you guys can pm me if you need help!! - hope that all helps you get on the track you want to be on. :)

Why would I ask a solaris fanboy about linux. If I have any questions about why sun is so shitty I'll pm you.

Pretty much, if you want to be a computer user and have your OS tell you what to do, go Windows. If you want to use your computer, and tell it what to do, run *nix.

Offline Zazen

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 12:36:43 AM »
Thanks a lot for the slackware recommendation, I'm downloading it now

And "man" isnt the greatest resource for beginners I am now laughing and it's out loud because what was said previously is so funny..  I use man now only as a more verbose version of -h or --help when i forget the syntax of one or two command arguments.  If you wanna learn and are new, I'd suggest using Google over the man pages ;) 

Well yeah, that's how I use it but I have to do it a lot more often. Then again, I rarely need to /? a windows command. I'm not man-ing "HOW DU I MAKE NETWURK" :P

Quote
here's what i mean about "ps aux"

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ   RSS  TT  STAT STARTED      TIME COMMAND
root     25061  0.6  4.0 317592 82888  ??  R    Sun06PM 147:56.08 /usr/local/bin/X -br -nolisten tcp :0 -auth /var/run/xauth/A:0-2f4xFJ (Xorg)

obviously this is my "X" window system (on FreeBSD), this shows the full path of the command running, what it is "(Xorg)" when it started and the three other things that Windows says "user, mem usage, and cpu usage." This also gives you the PID, with the PID and as a real system administrator, you can do what you want to that process.

Notwithstanding that task manager and tasklist both provide PID, any decent windows admin keeps the pstools suite close at hand (so named because the pslist tool provides similar output to ps). The (excellent, free) sysinternals tools give you an extraordinary degree of control and visibility into the guts of your windows machine: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/default.aspx

In fact, Microsoft has all of the sysinternals tools available via an over-the-internet windows share: \\live.sysinternals.com . Of course SMB over the internet is a little slow but it's still pretty cool to type "\\live.sysinternals.com\tools\pslist" and get similar output without even putting in the minor effort to go download the tool.

Offline ApprenticePhreak

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 05:27:05 AM »
I'll tell you what's so great about Linux, Ubuntu specifically; Flash doesn't bother to show up at all so I can't waste time watching youtube videos or using any of those nifty things Arby has on the main page.

And that would be after I installed the packages. I get to see some ads ok, that's about it though.

Ubuntu 8.04. Fix my problem. Because I really can't google this and get a decent answer or one even on subject. Something about me accidentally installing two packages that do the same thing and I don't know how to get rid of one or the other in Linux.

Whoopie!

Offline vixen

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 08:06:11 PM »
holy shit trev you got me hot

Offline trevelyn

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2008, 02:08:00 PM »
Why would I ask a solaris fanboy about linux. If I have any questions about why sun is so shitty I'll pm you.
[/quote]
what an open mind, sounds like this will be a great guy.  I seriously dont know why people are bashing me over the solaris thing.


EDIT:
i guess youre right, i mean, it's only the people who don't know me that bash me.  and why should i care?  Sun made some beautiful things, and they made some bad things.  So what? everybody does.  but the solaris fanboy thing was the last fucking straw, im so sick of people.  linux is a derivative of a derivative. solaris is a derivative. the root source of the OS is more prevalent. why wouldn't someone who knows the UNIX OS throughout, not know anything about it's derivative? who the fuck is moose alini? what the fuck am i still doing here?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 03:10:30 PM by trevelyn »

Offline ApprenticePhreak

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2008, 02:34:57 PM »
But trevelyn rescued me in my time of need. I messaged you, you sat with me and held my hand. WHO CARES IF YOU USE THE BALL OF FIRE IN THE SKY AS AN OS; YOU'RE MORE EFFICIENT THAN GOOGLE!

Flashplayers now work due to trevelyn© inc.

Offline Moose-Alini

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 05:08:34 PM »
Why would I ask a solaris fanboy about linux. If I have any questions about why sun is so shitty I'll pm you.
what an open mind, sounds like this will be a great guy.  I seriously dont know why people are bashing me over the solaris thing.
[/quote]

Dude, calm down it was a joke. Solaris is in a lot of contexts pretty cool, and ZFS is probably the best filesystem out there right now.

In response to your second point: I feel bad for you son,
I got 99 problems but internet name recognition aint one.

Offline Magus

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Re: Whats so great about linux?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2008, 05:29:59 PM »
I was reading my Dell Catalog I got in the mail today, and was surprised when I saw that Dell Inspiron Mini 9 came with Ubuntu as the default operating system.